Tuesday night, June 18, 2024, an overflow crowd filled the second-floor meeting room in the Wake Forest Town Hall and part of the first-floor lobby.
Most of the crowd was there to protest Pride Fest, a celebration licensed by the town for Saturday, Oct. 5, and to ask or demand that it be cancelled. They used a public comment section of the town board’s regular agenda.
There was some tension because of the large crowd of potential speakers and their supporters or family. Mayor Vivian Jones, before the hearing opened, said she expected everyone would be respectful and would refrain from clapping, applauding or any other expression and warned those who did that they would be “escorted” out of the room by the police officers present.
Wake Forest Pride, a group of LGBTQ people, was organized this year, too late to get an event license for June — Pride Month — so settled on October this year. The event will be held on East Owen and Brooks Street.
Of the 21 speakers about the Pride Fest event, 13 asked or demanded the event be cancelled during their three minutes, usually with Biblical references and quotes, and eight, including three local ministers, said gay and queer people are part of the spectrum of humanity, one calling Pride Fest “a celebration of simply being alive.”
The crowd indicated there might be more who had signed up to speak, but several people left after each speaker so it only took about 50 minutes to hear every speaker.
Earlier, during a separate comment session, two local women spoke in favor of a nondiscrimination ordinance which was on the agenda and passed later in the meeting.
###
47 Responses
People (some not even from around here, apparently) speaking up to “demand” cancelation of this event shows exactly why Pride Fest is needed in Wake Forest. Don’t like it for whatever reason? Then don’t go! But if you do attend, I expect you’ll find not just a celebration of the LGBTQ+ community, but an example of how awesome our growing town can be when we accept and include others.
All 8 speakers who spoke in support of the LGBTQ community, the family-friendly Pride Festival, diversity, equality, and inclusion, are residents of Wake Forest.
11 of the 13 who spoke against the permitted gathering are not Wake Forest residents, and are from as far away as Morrisville and Henderson.
I get what you saying but, anyone who shops or works in Wake Forest is considered a stakeholder. Even though they do not reside here they have a right to utilize our public comment section to address any concerns they have on local matters. There are folks with concerns who live here in town but are afraid of being chastised for speaking out publicly or on social media about the festival.
Personally, I wish I could put everyone in one room. Have a talking stick & everyone really listen to one another. Hopefully by the end of the night have a brainstorming session where we collectively draft ideas for policies that we can all get on board with. Maybe invite a few staff members
These hour-long public comment sessions are accomplishing nothing. Most of the commissioners are zoning out after 4 speakers no matter which side someone is with. I know town hall & the mayor like to group folks together by the topic they are discussing. I think folks have a right to speak & be heard. It’s hard to be heard when there are 30+ speakers speaking on the same topic. Redundancy makes it extremely difficult for me to personally give folks my undivided attention. I would imagine there are board members who feel the same way.
This is a statement from the editor: ENOUGH ALREADY!! You folks have beaten this horse to death! From now on — 9 am Friday, June 21 — I will no longer approve any comments about Pride Fest.
I understand some or all of you have signed up to speak at the Wake Forest Town Board meetings for three months in the future in order to carry on again. I urge you NOT to show up. Margaret Watkins is correct in saying redundancy heaped on top of redundancy causes anyone forced to listen to it all to want to ignore it all.
We know where all of those who have commented (at length) stand. Saying it again and again is not useful.
Carol W. Pelosi
Hey Margaret, I and one or two others who spoke on Tuesday would love to sit down with several of the event organizers and discuss. If you would like to arrange this that would be great
I am absolutely shocked that people who proclaim to be Christian would use the Bible against things like unity and love. Was it not Jesus that said “Love your neighbor as yourself?”. I had planned to go to Pride Fest and wasn’t really planning to make a big deal about it, but I am going to promote the heck out of the event now!! Its on!!
Humm… according to your standard Jesus wasn’t very Christian either when he said in Luke 13:27-28 speaking of the final judgment “But He will say, ‘I tell you I do not know you, where you are from. Depart from Me, all you workers of iniquity.’ There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth,”
He also said in verses 1and5 of chapter 13 “do you think that they were worse sinners than all other men
who dwelt in Jerusalem? I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish.”
The Bible is abundantly clear on homosexuality.
Here are a few verse there are many.
You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.
Leviticus 20:13
Jude1:7
Romans 1:18-32
1 Corinthians 6:9-10
Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.
It’s pretty simple. Don’t like it? Then don’t attend.
@SeparationofChurchandState: This is one of the best responses I’ve ever read to this atrocity of seemingly well-meaning people protesting about something they apparently know nothing about. Kudos to you and John Pavlovitz for speaking truth.
As for those protesting, there is something called the “tyranny of the minority.” What you’re doing is continuing to convince the rest of us, the majority (including other Christians) that fundamentalist religion is dangerous to democracy and its goal is Christian theocracy. I know many evangelicals who are willing to “live and let live.” Unfortunately, to quote another aphorism, “the squeaky wheel gets the grease.”
Responsible journalism takes that into account and makes no assumptions about the facts.
Bob Dillion “you’re gonna have to serve somebody it may be the devil or it may be the Lord but you’re gonna have to serve somebody” Every country is ruled by a “religion” (a moral compass) it’s not a matter of if but which. Every law is a moral law. Are founders understood that.
John Adams said “Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other,”
And Thomas Jefferson said
“Of all the systems of morality, ancient or modern which have come under my observation, none appears to me so pure as that of Jesus….I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus.”
Thomas Jefferson wrote the Declaration of Independence
Glad to see that there are some people that are willing to take a stand for morals and values. Hopefully this event will be canceled.
What are people afraid of? This is a giving and wonderful community of people who have been persecuted and bullied all their lives. If you are a Christian you should follow what Jesus taught and love and respect all. This is a safe space to recognize our differences while acknowledging that God made all of us. Love is love. Just because people love differently doesn’t make it perverted or bad. I think they protest too much.
This isn’t going away. It’s the right thing to do
I’ll be willing to bet my house that none of the people from the churches who oppose this event have ever had groups of LGBTQ people come to their churches trying to convert their kids or force their wills upon them or condemn them.
And yet, if we allow these people to bully the town into canceling this event, we will be empowering them to continue attacking them unprovoked. PRIDE is not only harmless to everyone, but it is 100 percent voluntary.
PRIDE is an acknowledgement and celebration of simple existence—and the angry and passionate fight by some to stop it shows exactly why it is needed.
Wake Forest is either a place for all people to exist or it isn’t.
I hope we embrace our best selves in these days.
Actually they have you can look at news articles all over and see where they have come into churches striped down all there clothes in front of everybody and protested
Where is this happening? Can you link an article where Queer people are attacking churches?
❤️
Here are my full comments from last night’s meeting:
My name is John Pavlovitz. I’m a Wake Forest resident, an author, and a thirty-year pastor. Two weeks ago, I attended Pride in Hendersonville NC, and I’d like to share what I saw and experienced.
I saw families with young children, kids with their faces painted, jumping on bouncy houses. I saw middle aged couples buying glass work from local vendors. I saw teenagers handing out water and giving free hugs. There were churches, interfaith organizations, area nonprofits and local businesses all there to support and celebrate.
There were also protestors: professed Christians, holding signs, talking about pedophilia and grooming children. They were shouting through bullhorns and waving Bibles and talking about God’s judgement.
And the irony, was that these protestors were soon ordered to leave by the local sheriff, because they, not anyone at Pride, continued to directly address young children coming in with their parents, walking up to 7 and 8 year olds saying, “Do you know your mommy and daddy are leading you to hell?” and “Do you know there are dangerous people in there?”
Before they left, I walked up to the group and said, “Can one of you answer me a simple question: Precisely how is anyone else’s gender identity or sexual orientation, or their simple existence (which is what PRIDE is about) damaging you personally?
There was silence. I then said, “I think you know that no one here is damaging you, however, I can assure you that by coming here, holding signs and shouting through bullhorns and waving Bibles and screaming about God’s judgement, that you are damaging people here unprovoked. I said, “Why are you actually here?” and one of them replied, “Where here because God’s love compels us to.”
I said, “So you’re here because you love these people?” and they said yes. I responded, that from what I know about Jesus’ teachings, that if you truly loved these people, you’d drop your signs and bullhorns and Bibles and you’d walk 30 yards over to the actual event and you’d listen to people’s stories and see what’s going on, and you find that all that’s happening here is a celebration of being alive.
I’d say to all my friends here in Wake Forest who are protesting or opposing or trying to prevent and event that hasn’t even happened yet, that you’d allow it to happen, that you’d encourage it, and that you’d attend it and you’d meet your neighbors and coworkers and classmates, and see what’s actually happening—and then decide if it’s perverted or wrong or dangerous, because I think you’ll discover that this is simply a group of people trying to be seen and heard and loved and respected: something we should want for all Wake Forest residents.
So I truly hope you’ll allow Wake Forest Pride to happen, and when it does, I’ll look forward to seeing all of you there.
John, you are mis-informed about the US Constitution and the First Amendment.
Amendment I.
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press, or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
The First Amendment is speaking to Congress and the authority they may exercise, The second part of this amendment is directed to Government at large. What this is saying, is that Congress can not make laws regarding religion. The idea of “Freedom of Speech, or the Press” is not a license to say what ever you want, but is referring to the law and order of this Nation. A PRIDE fest is not speech, It is a demonstration of perverted sexual behavior and/or lifestyle. The last sentence clearly states that we can peaceably assemble to address the government for a redress of grievances of which the 13 speakers (from 13 different families) did very well. The Constitution or any other US historical document for that matter do not say anything about the “Separation of Church and State” and even if it did, three “Pastors” made Public Comments pro the fest about what their churches believed, which is a contradiction to this argument of separation between the two. My belief is that NOTHING sexual should EVER be celebrated in the streets.
This is what our state’s Constitution says about REAL marriage:
MISCELLANEOUS Sec. 6. Marriage.
Marriage between one man and one woman is the only domestic legal union that shall be valid or recognized in this State.
So, we can’t have a Christmas parade but we can celebrate this pervision? What happened to the Wake Forest I loved from 30 years ago? We need to clean house if the board goes along with this. We already know where “Mayor Vivian” stands! Not sure why she keeps getting reelected.
No one’s stopping you from organizing a Christmas event. If you raise funds, get volunteers, pay for security/police, follow Town policies, and accordingly apply for a permit like EVERY other community event in this town, you will get approved. December’s coming, you better get to work.
So many people are passionate about the Christmas parade when sitting behind their screen and keyboard, but when it really comes down to it, no one wants to step up.
The Pride Fest organizers put in the work, got the volunteers, is paying for the security, is following the town policies and submitted their application. Therefore it got approved. To reject the application or cancel the event due to religious reasons would be plain and outright discrimination.
Have you inquired specifically and asked the people who were in charge of the Christmas Parade why it was canceled? Rather than making assumptions or believing rumors? Have you taken the time to attempt to plan a parade to take its place?
Unless people are interested in truth and facts- and willing to put effort into their ideas to make the town better- spreading misinformation and hurtful words into the community does no one any good.
BREAKING: Wake Forest in not a church. Stop trying to force leaders to legislate your religion.
This is about sin being paraded in the streets, something you would never have seen in years bygone.
I suppose you never leave your house? With your comment- either you must stay in your home all the time or you must be perfect. Sounds exhausting.
John, did anyone assert that WF is a church?
What are your thoughts on the NC constitution, which the Commissioners are under oath to uphold? Specifically, the opening: “We, the people of the State of North Carolina, grateful to Almighty God, the Sovereign Ruler of Nations, for the preservation of the American Union and the existence of our civil, political and religious liberties, and acknowledging our dependence upon Him for the continuance of those blessings to us and our posterity, do, for the more certain security thereof and for the better government of this State, ordain and establish this Constitution.”
Amen John, wake forest is not a church!! But it’s not your BROTHEL either. But if I had to choose between the two I’d choose a church anyday. I guess that were we would differ.
John,
Stop bending to the sinful culture if you claim to be a Christian. Jesus did not bend to the sinful culture of his day. Rather, he confronted them and was crucified. Why claim to be a Christian if there is no difference between you and the culture? Don’t be a lukewarm people pleaser. In your 30 years of pastoral ministry, have you never run across James 3:1?
13 anti speakers (most from two families) to 8 pro—and yet your headline is “Crowd asks board to cancel Pride Fest.”
This is irresponsible journalism.
Also, you really should interview the organizer of PRIDE so that the reality of the planned event can be clearly understood.
I had no information that some of the speakers were from the same family.
Amanda Cottrill who heads WF PRIDE really deserves representation.
She has dutifully done everything required for this (already approved) event and been extremely clear and thorough in what the event will look like.
Why not? Shouldn’t that be basic anymore?
Each anti-pride speaker was from a different family. Not sure where John Pavlovitz got his info from.
Hi,
My name is Amanda Cottrill (Co-chair of Wake Forest Pride) and I am available to answer any and all Wake Forest Pride related questions. I know you have a list of answers from a few weeks ago that were provided by Margaret W.- I do give permission for those to be published as I answered them- but I am available for any other questions/concerns/fact checking as well. Please contact via info@wakeforestpride.org.
There were 10 families represented tioraidh speakers against and around 15 there to support them
John,
The speakers were from 13 separate families, not from 2 families. Your comments at the town meeting were not based on scripture. You mentioned being a 30 year pastor. What gospel are you preaching or promoting? The men that stood to speak against this event are clearly representing the Biblical view that homosexuality is a sin. If you oppose this view then please do not call yourself a pastor. Romans chapter 1 describes the downward trajectory of society when people suppress the truth in unrighteousness, and exchange the truth for a lie. Have you read this? Do you understand that by promoting your own thoughts and feelings, instead of what God calls right and wrong, is a fulfillment of this scripture on you?
Your group may say we are unloving, unaccepting, etc. etc. This could not be further from the truth. Loving someone actually has more to do with helping them to see the truth, and not just going along with whatever they want to do. This is seen in parenting, in local government, in law enforcement, etc. How is it that you are okay with endorsing people destroying their bodies? Have you looked at the research showing mass depression, suicide rates, etc in the LGBTQ+ community? Could it be because going against God’s natural design (as is so clearly evident in nature) actually destroys a person’s body and soul? I am disappointed that a so called “pastor” would endorse such lifestyle.
On the other hand, a true Christian, following in the footsteps of Jesus, will call those who are trapped in this lifestyle to repentance. This is not hateful. This is loving, the most loving thing that we can offer. We’re not claiming to be “holier than” or “better than”. In fact, we freely admit as the Bible says “and such were some of you, but you were washed, you were sanctified…by the blood of Jesus.” The only difference is the covering for sin found in Jesus Christ. And if you want that covering, then repentance is necessary. Repentance leads to turning away from sin, and following after the One who purchased you with His own blood. Do you know this Gospel? Have you actually been brought to the point of seeing your own sin, so that you can help other people come to Christ?
Please, don’t mascarade as a pastor, unless you plan to represent the true Jesus. I invite you to read Romans 1-3 for yourself if you never have. If you seek to understand what God is saying, it will point you in the right direction. This is your only hope in life. The life you are promoting is only emptiness and vanity.
There were more than 2 families, not sure where you got your facts from.
Kudos to everyone utilizing their free speech in a public forum. I also truly feel for the town commissioners who had to sit through all that. It’s the government for all people, not just those of a certain religion. I bet some of the people who quoted the Bible as their argument last night would scoff at the idea of someone quoting Hindu sacred texts as an argument to shut down the Cars and Carnivores event (evil steak).
I wonder why the guy quoting drunkenness to fearmonger about the Pride Fest hasn’t protested Friday Night on White? The Pride fest organizer stated no alcohol at the event, while FNOW literally has long lines for beer and alcoholic beverages. And the other person insinuating that HIV testing and safe sex resources are disgusting things? Newsflash for that guy, straight people get HIV too, and safe sex is important for everyone. It doesn’t take a medical professional to recognize this.
The Christian Bible, the Jewish Tanahk, the Muslim Quran, Hindu Vedas, various other texts, etc… they certainly play a role in the lives of diverse people in this town, but they have NO bearing on a government in which separation of church and state is one of the key foundations. We don’t live in a theocracy, no matter how much some people want it. One would think the public comments were a church deacon admonishment from how much Christian scriptures were used to support their “argument.”
As a little reminder, the bible was used by many to argue FOR slavery (slaves, obey your masters). To stop women from voting (maintain family values, women’s place in society). To keep segregation and against the civil rights movement. I’m sure the well-meaning christians back 50, 100, 150 years ago would describe their biblical arguments as “universal truths” righteously fighting to protect their family, community, and traditional values. I’m sure those who quoted scripture last night wouldn’t agree with those old “universal truths” and have plenty of reasons why that was a mistake of the church, or that they were just a product of their times. The book hasn’t changed, but the society has – allowing people to gloss over or reinterpret sections as they desire. What makes them any different?
I personally found it offensive, and borderline threatening, the way some things were conveyed. That the commissioners don’t really have any authority, that God was going to punish/destroy the town of WF like Sodom and Gomorrah, or equating LGBTQ people with sick criminals. That’s loving? That’s going to draw people to Jesus? This is the kind of stuff that drives people away, makes young people scared for their own lives and fear their neighbors, causes deep insecurities and mental health struggles. It’s less a religion of love and forgiveness, and more a religion of “get out of my town.”
Like has been stated so many times, if it bothers you so much just don’t go. No one’s forcing you to subject your kids to the horrors of food trucks, music, and vendors. Have a bible study in the peace of your home, while the people who want to care and give support to their fellow community members can show up to the event. Everyone wins. That’s what it means to live in a free country.
Amen! And thank you.
Hi friend, when you say “separation of church and state” what are you trying to keep out? What are you wanting to wall off?
When you say “church and state” what you are really saying is “I want a separation of morality and state. A separation of God and state. I want moral freedom to do whatever I think is right.”
But that is not reckoning with reality: God is over the state, just as He is over His whole creation. Why are you advocating for a separation of God and state when our NC constitution has God embedded in the preamble? Specifically: “We, the people of the State of North Carolina, grateful to Almighty God, the Sovereign Ruler of Nations, for the preservation of the American Union and the existence of our civil, political and religious liberties, and acknowledging our dependence upon Him for the continuance of those blessings to us and our posterity, do, for the more certain security thereof and for the better government of this State, ordain and establish this Constitution.”
Be honest. You want to be unhinged from any moral constraints. That’s what you mean by “separation of church and state.”
But here’s the thing – I do have moral freedom to do what I think is right. Just as you have moral freedom to do what you think is right. Everyone has a right to do what they think is right, as long as it is within the law. We answer to our governments, constitutions, and plenty of laws for legal constraints, not morality. That’s what church, mosque, synagogue, family teaching at home, or whatever you’d like, is for. I certainly have moral values, thank you very much.
We are thankful for religious liberties in our country. You are free to teach your children being gay is wrong, and your church is free to excommunicate its gay members. But your freedom of religion does not give you the freedom to force your religion on others. Just because you might believe drinking alcohol is sinful doesn’t mean you have a strong argument for the Town of WF to cancel Friday Night on White. Don’t weaponize the government for your religious matters.
What I’m trying to keep out of government is a single religion that wants to dictate their values onto everyone else, even those who don’t share that religion. You believe being part of the LGBTQ community is sinful, therefore justifiable to discriminate against the Pride Fest. A Hindu citizen might believe eating beef is sacrilegious, therefore justifiable to discriminate against the Cars and Carnivores event. Both of these involve someone with deep moral convictions based on their personal religious beliefs. But sorry to tell you, both have no standing in our government or court of law.
Be honest, you just want to force your personal moral belief system on everyone around you. God may be mentioned in the NC preamble, but the Constitution of our great nation, which thankfully guarantees the freedom of religion, supersedes any state documents or laws.
According to your logic, Christian principles from the Word of the Living God must be consigned to the four walls of the home or a church building but must never enter the public sphere. But ideas pertaining to the immoral behavior of fornication, members of the same sex committing sexual activity together, the mutilation and destruction of bodies in the attempt to change from one gender to another, the sexualization of children, the normalization of bestiality (first through pretense a la “furries”, then the real thing), the normalization of pedophilia (see TED talks about so-called Minor Attracted Persons), the circumventing of parental authority by school administrations to promote the above abhorrent behaviors and the provision of hormones and puberty blockers without parental knowledge, the practice of having men dress in garish costume to become an offensive caricature of femininity and read sexually charged “children’s” books to kids in libraries – all of that AND MORE is ok? No. This movement is destructive and destroying the lives of those who have embraced its lies. It must be opposed.
Also, Wake Forest Pride is a nonprofit made up of some people who are part of the LGBTQI+ community and some incredible allies.
If you’d like to have more accurate information about Wake Forest Pride or the Inaugural Wake Forest Pride Fest please reach out to us at info@wakeforestpride.org. A wealth of information can also be found on the official website. https://www.wakeforestpride.org/
Wake Forest Pride did not want to do the event in June. October was selected for many reasons. A festival like this does take time to plan, there are so many other great Pride festivals in June- why not wait until cooler weather and October as it is LGBTQI+ History Month.
Jesus Christ what a joke of a town that people would oppose that event.
I hope the Commissioners don’t bow to the protesters and cancel the event.
Amen!
They just approved a nondiscrimination ordinance. The festival will take place.